From stages to the studio.

Thank you very much, Rob, for taking the time! We were really looking forward to having this chat with you! Let’s start from the beginnings! How did you first step into the world of audio?

I actually started as a singer with my buddies when we were about ten years old. This was right after the British Invasion hit America. We had cardboard guitars—my friends mimed while I actually sang. That was the earliest spark.

 

How do you recall this British invasion that hit America? (I’m guessing we’re talking about The Beatles, Rolling Stones etc. here) Must’ve been such an exciting time!

In 1964, The Beatles arrived on National TV, on the Ed Sullivan Show; as a family, we watched it quite often together. I remember myself and my two sisters sitting in front of the black-and-white TV with our eyes glued to the TV waiting... and then BAMMMM!!!!

There they were! It was a game-changer for the world and me. I learned every song and sang them with all my heart. Saved my money from washing cars or mowing lawns and bought every album or 45 so I could take them with me to my friends' houses.

 

 

 

So after this, what road laid ahead? Did you jump into music education?

My dad played trumpet and had a five-piece jazz band during his college days. They were commissioned to play on steamships traveling between New York and France. Music was always around the house.

I have two older sisters, and we were always singing together—harmonies, roots, whatever felt fun. I took proper cornet and trumpet lessons from grade school through high school, and I became a solid reader of sheet music, even though it didn't come easily.

My dad and his brothers all played trumpet as well, so it was in the family DNA. During high school, a few of us even resurrected the high school choir. My parents never discouraged me from pursuing music. I'm grateful for that to this day.

 

It’s really heartwarming that you mentioned this, being grateful for this approach of your parents. This could mean a lot. Or it could do a lot of harm when they DO NOT support this endeavor. Do you think a parent in today’s circumstances should still support his/her child’s musical ambitions?

Oh yes, absolutely. The research has shown that with music programs in schools, it only helps develop children in so many valuable ways. Beyond what anyone ever thought. I know it did for me. It challenged me outside of the normal learning classes. With school budgets so under strain, it’s a shame that the schools are forced to cut music programs today. Always look for a school that offers a musical journey of some sort; you won’t regret it.

 

You started live sound at a very early age. How did the calling find you?

By high school, our band was getting weekend gigs, and we each had responsibilities beyond our instruments. Our bass player's dad had a van, the keyboard player hosted rehearsals—and I became the sound and lighting tech. Every cent from summer jobs and gigs went into gear.

During my junior year, I was singing in the middle of the stage at a local ballroom, wearing these outrageous outfits one of the moms made. I looked out and thought,

"What am I doing up here? You belong out there at the little mixing board.”

That was it. The band eventually broke up, but we're still great friends today. Now I knew where I belonged.

 

 

Well, outrageous outfits have served well for some to be fair! Do you by chance still have any piece of the gear that was used back then? Light or sound.

I think the best I can do for you is the picture of us as The Four of Hearts.

But what is even more valuable is that I still have these friendships with all of my old bandmates. We stay in touch. I was pretty much the only one that made it my career, if you will. It catapulted me from a singer to an Audio Engineer.

 

Did you miss the stage after transitioning to audio?

Not at all. I loved learning sound, soldering cables, building speakers and crossovers. I never looked back.

 

Your first major tour was with Kansas. How old were you?

I was 22. I joined dB Sound in Chicago in 1977. Kansas was already one of their clients.

 

What do you remember about your first big-act tour?

I loved the load-ins and load-outs. First in, last out. I did all the power distro, flew the PA, pinned the stage. I studied everything the FOH mixer and the monitor engineer did. Then one day they let the monitor engineer go and said, "By the way, you're mixing monitors tonight."

I was terrified—but I survived.

 

Well, you’re the first telling me to have loved load-ins and load-outs, haha.

The LOAD-INS AND OUTS were the MAIN act!! The band on tour was just the opening act... hahahah, I used to say, and I have no idea where that came from. Maybe it was because I was there for the 16-hour days.

 

So after this surprise monitor-mixing, you stayed behind the console?

Yes, that was pretty much it. After being in the monitor position and realizing just how important of a part I played in the performance, it really became my passion. I needed to be the very best at it. I just loved building the monitor systems and making improvements tour after tour.

 

In what way was touring different back then from these days?

Starting with the late '70s and early '80s, all the gear was so heavy and big; rigging was so cumbersome. Trucks were packed to the ceiling.

The venues were so difficult to get in and out of. Most of the venues had no acoustical treatment like today. Tough rooms.

Now the gear is so well packaged; productions are so much more organized now. The local crews are so much better. Arenas and stadiums are so much better in so many ways.

The venues really do sound so much better now. This comes at a cost, though, as many of the newer arenas' seating is very high, so there’s a need for extra rigging to get the sides up for great coverage.

Some venues are very long, so you might want to advance delays. Today you have Virtual Soundcheck at your fingertips with the digital consoles from multitracking the shows most nights. There’s so much more to consider with today’s tours.

Everyone demands better sound. The bar has really gone up. The visuals of today’s shows are just spectacular. All the departments work so much better together now.

 

 

Tell us about the transition from Kansas to Prince. How did that happen?

After Kansas, I worked with Heart. During the load-out of our last Heart show in Florida, a pay phone nearby was ringing nonstop.

When we finished, I finally answered it; it was one of the owners from dB Sound on the line looking for our crew chief.

Prince had been at the show and loved our clean stage look with flown monitors and no wedges—very unusual at the time. They wanted that monitor system in Minneapolis immediately.

I said, "Prince? Prince of Wales? Prince of Monaco?" I honestly didn't know who he was yet; I was just excited the truck was heading back to Minneapolis, my hometown.

That phone call changed my life in an instant.

I ended up mixing monitors for Prince on the Controversy, 1999, and Purple Rain tours before he brought me on full-time. I moved back to Minneapolis from Chicago and was a full-time employee for PRN Productions.

I transitioned to FOH right when I arrived at Paisley Park Studios and mixed for all the associated acts: The Time, Vanity 6, Madhouse, The Family, & Prince. Prince constantly had other musicians around, so our production rehearsal stage was always busy.

I often got calls to come in over the weekends so Prince could jam with his fellow musician friends: Sheila, Lenny Kravitz, Morris Day, Jimmy Jam, Miles Davis, just to name a few.

I moved to Front of House right after the Purple Rain tour. I did all the after-party shows, birthday parties, and any events Prince would throw at PPS.

Then came the tours of Sign O' the Times, Around the World in a Day, Lovesexy, Act I & II, and the start of the Diamonds & Pearls tour, all at FOH.

Often I would travel to Europe with an airfreight container full of gear for him if he decided to park himself in Paris to make an album or movie.

Prince was demanding, yet amazing every day, brilliant, and inspiring. I loved working with him AND for him. I still think about him and miss him every day and one more!

Am I correct to assume that at this point of your life, you were almost nonstop on the road?

Yes, I do recall I was home four days in 1997; I would finish the tour I was on and then on to the next one. It really did help that if Phil wasn’t touring, Genesis was, or Janet Jackson, or Prince...

I really did appreciate and am so grateful for the accounts I had back in my touring days.

 

What were your takeaways from the Prince years?

There was no handbook—just passion, work ethic, teamwork, and kindness. Be on time, work hard, immerse yourself, treat people well.

I did my best just like everyone else with Prince during my time. You just try to stay one or two steps ahead of him. Always tell him the truth.

He knew all there was to know about audio, and he knew if you were not being truthful. He could easily see if you were trying hard to deliver what he was looking for by the time you put in and how prepared you were for every rehearsal.

I truly believe Prince appreciated my hard work and trusted me to the point I had a key to his house, which had what is now in Studio B at Paisley Park—it was the studio in his home in Chanhassen. There are so many great memories and stories we had together.

 

 

How did the Genesis/Phil Collins era begin?

In Japan, at the Tokyo Dome, during the last shows of the Lovesexy tour of Prince 1988/89, Phil Collins attended one of the shows. Afterward, the systems tech said, "Phil Collins wants to meet you."

I laughed—but Phil was actually waiting. He said he appreciated my "attention to detail" and asked if I'd mix his next tour. He already had my phone number, obtained mid-show from Bill, the systems tech.

It was a difficult decision because I was grateful to Prince, but it was time to move on. Before Phil's tour came The Cure—which was an absolute blast.

Then Phil's ...But Seriously tour happened, and from there he brought me into the Genesis camp. That became a 20-plus-year chapter.

 

Just stopping for a minute to talk about arena shows. Your first time mixing for this kind of venue was with Prince? Or even before? I imagine at first it felt like a different undertaking…

I had opportunities to mix opening acts, or when I worked for the local bands, we did festivals or we opened for a band that was coming through our area.

We had concert clubs here in the '70s that held 2,000 people, so I was always that guy in the middle of the crowd mixing FOH and monitors from the same console. It was cool.

We had to squeeze blood out of a rock back then when so much of the gear was inadequate. Mainly speakers. You had to work hard at tuning systems or EQing stage wedges.

 

So before Phil Collins, you did just the one tour with The Cure? Style-wise it’s a bit different from Prince; was it an exciting challenge to you?

Oh yes, very different from Prince. There were so many rules and regulations with Prince. With The Cure, none... It didn’t matter because every Cure show was sold out just like Prince. The fans made the difference for sure. I knew nothing about The Cure until I was flown over to England with Roy Bennett, who was the lighting director/designer for Prince. Robert was a Prince fan, so he had been to our shows. Loved the lighting & sound. We got off the plane in London and went to the first production meeting, and in walked Robert Smith.

I had no idea... Honestly, I fell asleep at the meeting as Robert wanted to sit on the floor... I crashed hard from the long flight and time change... Robert was okay with it, I found out later... It was a great tour, “Disintegration” album, “The Prayer Tour.” I’m still very much in touch with Roger O'Donnell, the keyboard player.

When I drop in on the band now from time to time, it’s like yesterday. Great guys... I just love Simon Gallup & Robert. They were a trip!! Boris on drums and Pearl, Robert’s wife’s brother, on guitar, & of course Roger.

 

This is something I always have and still am marveling over this profession. With the right set of people, the good characters… if everything clicks, they can feel like family. Would you agree?

Great question. Yes, we do become a very close FAMILY, or you could say TEAM too. As a matter of fact, on a Ricky Martin World Tour, “Livin' La Vida Loca,” Ricky himself wanted everyone on the tour to wear a special shirt on our days off that said “FAMILY!” which they of course provided for us. I think we all got three versions of the swag: a long-sleeve T, a short-sleeve T, and a hoodie! Very cool...

I have made such wonderful friendships with crew and band members going all the way back to the beginning of my career. Many of them I stay in contact with to this day. For me, I always found a group of folks that shared the same interests as me, and we would spend our days off exploring the cities we were in. We would make great memories together and not even realize it until years later. Recently, we had a 40-year reunion of the PRINCE “Purple Rain Crew,” same with the Janet Jackson crew from 30 years ago. Most of us flew to Janet’s last show in 2025 in Vegas, and we surprised her at the end-of-tour party—we crashed it!! It was so much fun and she was in tears. I’m sure I will be doing more of those...

Prince had a band called “The Family” for his inner circle of musician friends & crew. I would get the call at any time of the day & night from him and he would just quietly say, “Cubby, get the Family over ASAP,” & hung up; he wanted to jam.

 

 

Tell us about those touring years—the good, the bad, and the unforgettable.

Mixing Prince, Phil Collins, and Genesis was a career catapult. Every show felt like a privilege. Packed arenas and stadiums around the world, phenomenal bands, and incredibly creative productions.

Some unforgettable memories:

• Meeting Prince Charles at the Prince's Trust event at Royal Albert Hall when I was mixing Genesis.

• Being in a room after a show with Phil Collins, Chester Thompson, and Billy Cobham—surreal, just having a casual conversation.

• Endless sold-out shows and the energy of fans who deeply loved their music around the world!

• Any show with Prince—truly a master class in performing.

• Every soundcheck I ever did with any of the artists I worked with. I just loved the interaction with either the artist or their musical director.

• If I’ve had a bad experience with an artist, I simply did not return when I got the call; you move on. Life is too short to look in the rearview mirror.

   

During these decades of touring, how do you see your evolution as a sound engineer?

Preparation, paying attention to details, and embracing the changing technology. Keeping the live mix true to the artist has always been what has stayed the most critical. Evolving with the changing times is crucial.

So much has changed during my time. Rigging, line arrays, digital technology - and not just consoles, - speaker management tools, tour support and systems engineers, promoters, and most of all the people that work so hard every day.

I think I became more focused on taking better care of myself and the people around me. We are a family for a short period of time on each tour. It was important to respect everyone.

I learned the minute you stepped into that venue, you represented the artist and your production.

 

Were there always new things to learn, or after a certain point you felt you knew every trick of the trade?

Yes, there were and always will be new things to learn for sure. As speaker systems evolve and consoles evolve, there is room to grow. There are so many tools outside of just mixing the show.

You have all of the speaker management tools to continue to make things better; 1% here and 3% there and soon your show is sounding more consistent night after night. Which allows the performance to get better; the monitor engineer has a more consistent show as well as a result of not fighting FOH. It has that opportunity to be more cohesive.

There’s also a lot to say about “stick to what you know.” You have to have that confidence which you have gained through all the decades of hard work. Learn from your experiences. Learn from your mistakes too.

 

Could you tell us about the equipment you were using during these tours?

All analog gear, copper multicore snakes, very large speaker boxes... Wow, things have changed...

My consoles of choice were Midas, Amek Recall, Yamaha. I always spent time with the microphone manufacturers.

I did my research and made relationships with most of them, and to this day we still share our thoughts with each other: Beyer, Sennheiser, Shure, Audio-Technica.

Were there pieces you always held close and used, or were you rather trying to experiment with new gear?

Midas, Amek Recall, and Yamaha consoles were a big part of my toolbox. AMS, Lexicon, Drawmer, dbx, Summit—all played a part in my go-to pieces.

 

How did this evolve throughout the years?

I stayed with gear I knew until the consoles improved or evolved, or that piece of gear improved, or in most cases with consoles, the need to embrace the snapshot/timecode need.

For me as the mixer for award shows like the Grammys or MTV, Billboard Awards, we had to start accommodating these huge events with the new digital consoles as the band count kept going up every year.

I remember we had six PM4ks lined up at the back of the room for the Grammys and Andrew, the systems tech, would have xerox copies of 8 channels on a piece of paper. He would make all the pencil marks on the EQ or EFX sends and the pre-amps. That was our recall!

As I finished Band 1 and went on to Band 2, I was on the second console. Andrew was now recalling Band 7 on console 1, so it was ready when I made the turn back to desk one. What a trip...

Microphones were always getting better. All the analog insert gear was getting better. You just had to do your own research and not do it because someone else you read was using it.

There had to be a reason. Requesting gear that the artist is paying for, you have to be true to this request of gear.

 

How did you balance your personal life while being a successful FOH engineer?

Faith, and a strong relationship with family and friends. That was my anchor.

My family and friends were by far my leaning post. I cherished my time when I was home. Especially with my son.

 

 

Were you also running a studio while touring?

Not in the very beginning; it came along in the '90s. I became part of the investor group with friends behind Master Mix Studios in Minneapolis, an SSL room designed by Ahl Studio Design.

I wasn't there often, but I brought in some touring clients for live bits: Ricky Martin, Cyndi Lauper, Yumi, and Bob Seger and others.

It was three really good friends and a manager that had a bunch of really good local bands that all went on to do good things.

 

Which Buso desk do you use, and why?

I looked across North America and nothing fit my vision. Then I discovered Buso—perfect!

I chose the Producer 61 with keyboard tray and added rack space. Recently, I added two more Producer 61 desks for my Wing consoles—10U racks on all four sides of the central workspace. The team at Buso was incredibly helpful.

 

 

Most FOH engineers stay purely in live sound, but you transitioned heavily into studio work. Why?

Leaving touring hit me harder than I expected. I really missed it. But I had the space at home to continue to dream up a great mix room.

I worked with Ahl Studio Design again; they built and designed all the custom acoustic treatments, studio triple-wide rack, all the cable management, and I gradually assembled the room that became Cubtone Soundworks.

 

What's the studio environment like today?

Minneapolis has a deep musical melting pot. I'm fortunate to work with great musicians across all genres: smooth jazz, R&B, funk, pop, gospel, and everything in between.

I stay pretty busy, and with file sharing made so easy with the internet, I keep my home my home with minimal foot traffic. If it’s a local project, I’ll always have the producer pop in. I love tracking vocals here; it’s a cool space. People feel comfortable, I’m told.

I don't track full bands here, but I have keyboards, guitars, & a library of MIDI. For drums or full ensembles, I use nearby studios but mix at home.

 

 

That reminds me of one of my important questions! You’ve worked with a vast array of musical styles. Which style feels closest to you?

I would have to say Pop music equaled to R&B and Funk.

 

And which one do you prefer to work with? Keeping in mind that they’re not necessarily the same.

I really did like being part of the large production shows, where all the departments worked closely together to create a playground for the artists to feel most comfortable to be themselves.

I loved mixing Phil, Prince, Genesis. The real deal, no playback. Really great musicianship. It was an honor and a privilege, and I will be forever grateful.

 

 

How do you see the music industry’s state these days? Both from musical and audio perspective.

The industry has changed in so many ways in the past four decades. We are in the saturation era, where streaming is the dominant revenue. So different than the '80s, '90s, and the early 2000s.

Streaming is 90% of the music consumption. I miss the days of the album cover & vinyl record and the credits as well. Although the vinyl era is returning to some extent.

It’s very hard for even the biggest names as the royalties have diminished so much. You can buy just one song now and not the entire album unless you're a SuperFan and have to have it all.

But there are now new platforms for music makers such as gaming & mood music etc. Combining genres of music such as country & rock (“CountryRock”) and so on.

The use of sampling has generated lots of talk. I think from a creative standpoint, we need to be very concerned about AI. There is so much to say here with regards to playback in live performances. I’ve worked with both sides of this debate.

Playback has its place in large spectacle productions such as segues from one theme to another. Then there’s the artists that will not step foot in that direction! I respect that.

From an audio perspective, the listening audience is far more critical now with the new ways of listening to music: YouTube, Spotify, Apple Music, CDs, DAT, High Definition formats, etc.

And the music mixes have improved because of the gear and new learning curves. On the downside, many people use a cheap earbud or the mobile phone speaker. We now have to use these devices to audition our mixes as so many people listen this way.

Extended low end and better bandwidth provide for a more pleasant experience. Immersive sound is a cool trend. Recording consoles and so much of the newer analog gear have a lower noise floor, and we hear everything clearer and cleaner with wonderful dynamics in most cases.

Concert venues have improved; stadiums, whether they're covered or not, have improved, and arenas too, as the audience takes notice and, as they should, have a voice on these new venues. It’s their tax dollars that pay for portions of these billion-dollar venues.

The speaker systems and the ability to recall and the measurement tools we have now in our everyday deployment on a show day have vastly improved.

But what matters the most are the technical crews that set them up every day.

Either you have the passion to be part of it and know what you're doing it for is the BIG picture = “THE PRODUCTION for the ARTIST.”

 

 

What would be your advice to someone who starts out just now? Is it worth it?

Oh yes, it’s worth it. If this passion of live music or recording music gets you and you have the passion to show up every day, then YES, it’s worth it!

You really need to understand the fundamentals of basic audio, and from there you can get into programs that are specific to your interests. The knowledge of sound theory, signal flow, acoustics, microphone techniques, and so on.

This can be a hobby as well if you find that you can’t make ends meet, but it is still a love for music and live performance that will fill your soul. Music is an international language!

I can’t imagine life without music. MUSIC IS LIFE!

And please always remember that everyone is welcome in this business.

Don’t judge them by their looks or what they’re wearing or how you judge their knowledge.

Look into their eyes and see the person for what they can be.

 

I was really curious to hear your take on our contemporary times.

I was very fortunate as I was never discouraged from following my path to my career. I mentioned this earlier in this interview.

There was no roadmap for me; I just kept at it as it interested me. I needed to learn as much as I could to keep my curiosity alive and the passion growing. The one thing perhaps I would have liked to have changed or added, I should say, would be to have taken proper piano lessons.

To have learned key signatures, tunings, and the ability to improvise would have given me just a few more tools to rely on.

I sang, I played cornet, so I did learn to read music, but it was limited. I did play very basic guitar and drums so I had the ability to keep time and understand singing in a key.

With the internet now, you can learn almost everything. There are universities and college programs both in which you can attend or take online. I would always recommend attending classes with others. It’s very rewarding and can really change your life. It pushes you to do the very best you can. Go for it!!

But before I let go of this question, it is most important to be a GOOD human being.

To be kind & respectful. To understand your purpose and to stay in your lane. This really creates the ability to be in that production element as a team player.

If you do these personable things and are good/great at your craft, you will never be out of work.

What fills your days now?

I officially retired from the road two years ago. Since then, I finished my build of my personal mix room, Cubtone Soundworks, which has been growing steadily.

I mix for a wide range of clients, and many touring clients call for live mixes to be generated for broadcast stems or mix-minus work for TV appearances.

All this while keeping Rupert Neve's thoughts in my head:

 

"Our job as engineers is to use our creative gifts to help reproduce the full breadth of emotion and meaning as intended by the musicians, such that the listener can have a more powerful experience."

Life is good!

Faders up!